In response to
a recent post talking about mayoral politics and Mitch Landrieu, roux and polimom wrote the following in the comments section (my emphs):
roux said...
Unless Mitch has had some sort of "come to Jesus" experience, and he may have, he's still a member of the clan that started the downfall of New Orleans.
I don't trust him but hey it's your city and the rest of Louisiana has very little say so in the politics of New Orleans.
Polimom said...
Sigh...
I know the popularity is with Mitch, but I agree with Roux. New Orleans didn't end up where it was all of a sudden on the day Katrina hit - it took 2 decades to get there.
The Landrieu's are part and parcel of the failed equation.
I've been hearing a lot of statements along these lines. Mitch is the son of Moon, and Moon was responsible in large part for the decline of New Orleans. (Therefore, we shouldn't vote for him.)
With your help I'd like to examine and explore this contention, and flesh it out a bit. What was Moon's uniquely special sin, if any? I don't know, I've only lived here the last ten years. I'm not steeped in the oral histories of the era, so please tell me your view in the comments. As for me, I'm puzzled by claims that assert New Orleans' "decline" occurred recently. In terms of per capita wealth, the city "peaked" in the 1850's; it was the highest of any American city. In terms of population, New Orleans peaked sometime in the 1960's, and has declined ever since. In one of the debates, mayoral candidate Rob Couhig linked Moon Landrieu to this decline but failed to elaborate. What's the general theory here? Where did it all go wrong, for those whose views parallel roux's and polimom's? Precisely why does Moon Landrieu deserve an inordinate amount of blame? Or does he?
Like I said, I'm puzzled by these claims. Previously,
I've cited John Barry's "social and financial conservatism" argument with approval. He says that after the Great Flood of 1927 rich New Orleans families became too insular and risk-averse. That's one view. What's yours?
Ultimately, I'm optimistic about the future. But I also want to clearly understand the past.
35 Comments:
The decline of NO really started way back with the Civil War but accelerated after the great flood in 1927. Pre-CW NO was one of the richest cities in the world. It bounced back some in the early 20th Century but lost its crown as a financial center post-flood.
I'm sure that Roux and Polimom are NOT bigots BUT the people I've heard who claim that Moon ruined NOLA usually are. A good friend of mine who lives/lived in Lakeview was talking with a neighbor about the election a month before the primary. My friend said that she was for Mitch. Her neighbor looked horrified and said: "How can you be for Landrieu? His father turned the city over to those people." I think you can guess who "those people" were.
Moon's sin to some people is that he was the first integrationist Mayor. Again, I'm not ascribing those views to the readers of your blog who commented but if I had a dollar bill for every time I've heard that I could eat at Antoine's every night for a week. Word.
I hate to say it, but the "it all began with Moon" meme does smack of the sort of vitriol I remember as a kid on the Bunny Bread white lakefront in '69. I don't think people like CR or PM are even conciously thinking, "dang, if we'd never let all those uppity black people vote...". The feelings about the Landrieus have become too deeply ingrained in parts of the community to be conciously racist.
If you're going to blame Mary Landrieu for the downfall of the city, then you'll have to blame other fabulously liberal pols like, uh, John Breaux, who didn't hesistate to campaign for the black vote (and who diverted flood protection money into the new Industrial Canal lock studies, etc.)
I like to think Polimom is an (online) friend, and I'd say the same for Cade Roux, whom I've met online at nola.us. I'd have to ask both of them, honestly, exactly why they think Moon Landrieu started the decline, to take a minute to think about this well accepted plattitude.
I too subscribe to the view that is was the broader leadership and the broader population of the city that contributed to the slow decline. When kids of my generation were all hustled into parochial or other private schools following desegregation, and the majority decided it was ok to let the public schools decline into decrepitude, that was one major factor that Moon and Dutch had nothing to do with, but which the Landrieu is the Problem crowd (and their parents) directly contributed to.
I can't respond in detail until later today but I'll try to give you my understanding of events. A lot of what I know comes from my grandparents who lived on Coliseum St. They are in Lafayette Cemetary accross from Commanders and probably still vote. hehe.
Later.
Moon Landrieu was mayor during the years when New Orleans became part of the interstate highway system, built the world trade center, established an international airport and instituted steps to bring its black population out of its shameful poverty. If you think those pictures from the 9th ward are bad, take a look at almost any picture of a black family in the 1950s.
Dutch Morial and the cronies with him started the kleptocracy that people erroneously attribute to Landrieu. Sidney Barthelemy feathered his nest for eight years and did absolutely nothing for New Orleans. Marc Morial, ditto.
It is very, very strange that white people are going around saying that Moon Landrieu was corrupt. I have heard the complaint Adrastos mentions about him many times, but, suddenly, in 2006, he's no longer "that n-lover," but "that corrupt Landrieu." I TOTALLY smell the work of the CORRUPT Republican smear machine going on here. Why do they want Nagin back in office? Because that government governs best which governs LEAST, and I think you will agree that we have had very little governing going on here. If you don't think we need a strong government (not a business) running this place, then I don't know what will convince you.
Like him or not, change needs to be made, just from a perception perspective. Regardless of what you think of the candidates, the battle we are fighting is for the conciousness of the rest of the US, who we need to rebuild this city. We can either have them say that it's the same old New Orleans, or we can have them say that we made a change. Might not be the change that you wanted, might be nothing more than window dressing from what I've heard from the Landrieu detractors.
Whatever it is, it's enough. Perception is reality, and we need to put that on our side.
oyster, good on ya! Without knowing why those statements in the latest Nagin ads bothered me, you hit it right on the head.
There is no answer to the question that is politically acceptable. That's why it won't be answered explicitly.
The anonymous comment that it is more likely to be the people who are making those claims who are responsible for the city's decline is probably the best I read among all of these excellent remarks.
I'd point out as well the shock of the plunge in oil prices during the 1980s. I wasn't living here then, but I always heard people refer to that as another nail in the coffin.
But let's not think in static terms. Ask yourselves if New Orleans is in decline, or in ascent?!
Who is the better candidate to lead New Orleans into its ascent?
Nagin has an abysmal record to run on, and worse, has nothing to say to inspire people to rise to face the challenges of the future that reconstruction requires. When Nagin speaks, everything is cool, and Ray Ray can handle it.
Mitch isn't talking about specifics, but he speaks with confidence in a language of inclusion and optimism that I find refreshing. He's a serious candidate, and yes, he has a legacy and a dynasty of other successful family members who set a high standard of achievement for him to perform to. What's wrong with that? Would we prefer that he came from an unsuccessful family?
The anti-Landrieu rhetoric stems from one thing and one thing only: the belief that Moon handed the city over to "them." Its just that simple.
The economic and social woes of NOLA in the 1970s weren't decided in City Hall. They were decided in corporate boardrooms in Houston and New York.
Blaming Moon for a snapshot of decline in 1970s New Orleans is like crediting the mayor of Los Angeles in the 1920s for the growth of the film industry there. There are larger forces at work.
>>Dutch Morial and the cronies with him started the kleptocracy that people erroneously attribute to Landrieu. Sidney Barthelemy feathered his nest for eight years and did absolutely nothing for New Orleans. Marc Morial, ditto<<
Snip. We've always had a kleptocracy here. Someone was always stealing from the people of NO: Mayors Maestri and Walmsley were right up there on the corruption scale with the Morials.
We've had some honest Mayors such as Chep Morrison and, yes, Moon Landrieu BUT all that meant was that someone else was stealing from another part of city or state government. During C Ray's time it has been the Orleans Parish School system.
The decline of the city from its 20th century peak (during Moon's administration) can be traced to
1) The provincial intractability of the Carnival aristocracy to whom Oyster (and Barry) refer.
2) The 40 national and global trend of hostility toward the working class and urban poor. At mid-century, New Orleans was a much more industrial city where it didn't necessarily take a great deal of education or family privilidge to live a respectable life and provide for a family. Today in New Orleans, like much of urban America, this is no longer the case.
3) But most of all, it is due to racism, racism, and more racism. The "white flight" suburbanization of the New Orleans area follows a pattern familiar to other cities across the country. To many whites, Moon is still the guy responsible for losing the cause. This is well earned. Lolis talked a bit about it in his column today. My Dad (admiringly) often refers to Moon as the "first black mayor of New Orleans" (Dad also refers to himself as the first black graduate of Warren Easton High School) I think this is unfortunately is what a lot of Moon's detractors still have in mind.
Jeffrey,
I think you're spot on. Maybe there are some thoughtful critics of Moon, but the vast majority are mourning the "way the city used to be before THOSE PEOPLE took charge."
Like present-day Metairie is an improvement? South Louisiana feels the same in a car as Georgia or Texas or Ohio does. Get out of your cars people!!!
There's probably some element of false nostalgia for a golden age that came before the decline on the part of both Moon lovers (I used to know a few) and Moon haters. What both groups forget is that (going by 10 yr census figures) the population peaked in 1960 and has declined in every census since. Landrieu was elected in 1970, his detractors forget that there was a mayor between Morisson and Landrieu. At least Landrieu backers can point to the building boom of the 70's--as a boy who was too young to know better, it made me think the city was growing, but it had nothing to do with the mayor.
The population loss was a nationwide phenonenom that began with the 1950 census for some cities, the sun belt cities that grew also expanded their boundaries--not all of their core areas grew. N.O. is somewhat unigue in that it didn't see the trend reverse or at least stabilize for a while in either the 80's or 90's. Of course, Nagin points to rising property values as a sign that things were reversing pre-K--I think that had more to do with a nationwide boom.
Finally, I have to wonder, how can any Lakeview residents forget the post-RITA farce of the mayor refusing to let them into Lakeview, but refusing to meet them right across the parish line because it would have meant leaving the city? That aversion to leaving the city came late and didn't last long.
I just told a pro-Nagin friend of mine that re-electing C Ray will be perceived nationally as the functional equivalent of Washington DC re-electing Marion Barry after he got busted smoking crack with hookers. Why conservative voters would want to prolong the city's image problem in this way is beyond me. If they really don't "trust" Mitch Landrieu, then keep a close eye on him for four years and work against his reelection in 2010. But for now, the city needs change.
Oyster (and all):
Heck of a question - and dialogue! Good for you for asking it.
I tried (really, really hard) to shrink my thoughts down to appropriate "comment" size, but failed miserably. Luckily, I have a blog....
It's not just a Landrieu "thing"
Why do I get the feeling that most of you were not born and raised in New Orleans? My MY how soon we forget.
Forget what, anonymous?
Big Shot, all this talk about Moon - well sorry folks, he did start the ball rolling down the hill -- but Dutch took that big ball (along with his buds) and threw it.
I'm from here and I remember how revered Vic Schiro was. Yup, all the adults that I knew kept comparing Landrieu to his predecessor and finding him totally lacking.
And Jeffrey, you can't pinpoint it from 10 year census figures, but the population almost certainly peaked under Schiro. But don't believe any false rumors unless you hear them from me.
Bayoustjohndavid, I was raised on bayoustjohn..right next to Dutch. Creepy guy. and that my friend is no false rumor (his son is..)nevermind..
ok, ok...let's just say .. in highschool his son (our darling xmayor) sure was different in high school when he went to Jesuit. Goodness, how he changed to become our humble mayor.
I wasn't talking about the Morials. I was responding to the idea that New Orleans was booming in the sixties until Landrieu came along in 1970 and messed everything up.
N.O. was far from unique in declining in the sixties and seventies. I believe that it's somewhat unique in not esxperiencing any kind of reverse or at least stabilization afterwards, but I'm not up on the national trends.
I was never sure which rumor was supposed to apply to which Morial son, BTW.
Ok anonymous, the entire point of this post was to let folks who shared your view explain it.
Proceed. Precisely how did Moon "get the ball rolling"? Are you talking about corruption, graft, machine politics, crime, the Superdome, housing projects... what?
Be specific.
Ok, mine was the first anonymous post (chicken). The rest are *not* mine.
Dear anonymous, I was born in 1957 at Hotel Dieu and carried home to a house in Lakeview. We moved to Egret St. when I was about 4. Pius Pixie, CBS geek-in-a-wool-blazer and a DLS Cavalier (worlds most embarresing mascot for a boy's school), '75. I went to UNO and have lived in Lakeview, Lake Vista, Gentilly, Treme (1300 block Esplanade right across from Elge's) and on Carrolton next to the old Steak and Egg.
My first political campaign was (as a kid) dragooned into working for Moon (my sister was co-chair of Youth for Landreiu in the pre-18 year old vote days. Her male co-chair is now a very conservative north of the lake legislature). I worked around or in newspapering and politics for over a decade, and left the state on the coattails of a guy named Breaux when he won his first Senate bid. I was a 10%'er (white voting Dutch) and walked precints that were not mix team for him, the RTA tax votes of the early 1980s, etc. Used to hang out at the Alliance for Good Government as well before the GOP did their Lennist take over thing. So me, I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. All I know is: people who say It All Started with Landrieu mean one thing. They might as well be big enough to just say it.
I don't even blame Dutch. He can take some credit for the entire river front/warehouse district redevelopment via the World's Fair. Barthelemy was weak. I covered the council when he was there and formed my opinion of him them. Thats really when the wheels came off.
I was living on Capitol Hill on 4th St. NE behind Union Station (about halfway between the Capitol and Len Bias' favorite crack market) when the whole urban life style thing went to hell after the arrival of crack and the explosion of the newer crime gangs. That happend everywhere at about the same time. It just got way too Clockwork Orange to live in the city for a lot of people, and the police everywhere couldn't handle it.
The real problem is that the middle class--black and white--abandoned the core city. Starting with my generation pretty much the entire white population that stayed in Orleans decamped into parochial or other private school, and the black middle class feld into Gentilly and kept moving east. Yes it was complicated by the fact that, for the last several hundred years, we had built a culture of dependency in the black population, especially post-Reconstruction. And the entire Johnston war on poverty thing unfortunately encouraged rather than alleviated it.
That's a much bigger factor in our decline than corrupt politicians, which are found everywhere. You think Haley Babour is a whole lot less corrupt than, say, Morial or Jefferson? Look at his ties to AshBritt and what they're getting paid under FEMA contracts for debris removal on the coast. The looting apparently hasn't stopped in Mississippi yet.
Say what you want, but if you're looking for easy formula's that solve your problems, check the touts outside the track come November. I used to like the guy with the blue ones, but I've been gone a while.
Pius Pixie. forgot about that. Ok I was a Cabaini Indian. Do you remember when Dutch took over? All our big Oil Companys were here on Poydras. Shell, Amoco, Cheveron (heart of CBD) Texaco and the larger independent ones, MacMoran, Texas Energy, Exchange, LL&E, I could go on forever. Oyster the ball started rolling.. By the time his son was in charge they had managed to run everyone out of town. Do you disagree? This was a shame. New Orleans lost millions. We can all hate the guys in the blue suits, but they brought a tremendous amout of tax money to our city.
Hey I went to St Pius! But they were Panthers by the time I got there. I agree with a lot of what Markus says... but I still believe that the overall trend of urban decline affected the city largely independant of whichever thief was in the mayor's office at the time. Our cities have been forsaken by the last 20-40 years of national de-industrialization and the reactionary politics of penalizing the poor for their own poverty. All of this has been enabled and exacerbated by suburbanization driven largely by racial animosity.
Anon, I don't really think we can blame Dutch for the oil bust. Oyster, your question, I thought, was intended to get at the reason for the as-yet-to-be-explained strong anti-Moon sentiment among a certain set. The overiding factor in this is racial. Moon is remembered most of all for being an integrationist... for appealing to black voters.. for giving the black community an ear. And, of course, according to some.. after Moon, the deluge.
"Do you remember when Dutch took over? All our big Oil Companys were here on Poydras. Shell, Amoco, Cheveron (heart of CBD) Texaco and the larger independent ones, MacMoran, Texas Energy, Exchange, LL&E, I could go on forever. Oyster the ball started rolling.. By the time his son was in charge they had managed to run everyone out of town. Do you disagree?"
I don't disagree, anonymous, but according to you, the oil exodus occurred after Moon's term.
While it's hard to argue that the business climate in NOLA has been great, the exodus of the oil bidness had more to do with the big picture than with who was Mayor of NO at any givem time. The oil bust forced consolidation of offices and improved communications made field offices less crucial. Call that a double whammy. Unless Dutch helped invent the fax, cell phones and email, he didn't have a lot to do with these trends.
All of this, of course, happened post-Moon.
Jeffrey - Pius Panther? gez...u youngin' I bet u a case of Abita I babysat you.
Oyster, let me jump in here. I'm from N.O. and was moved against my will to Cov., where my husband swears we will move back when he's fed-up (enough) with him medical practice. Maybe he'll open a Buds and make me truly happy. I dunno.
Dutch is not the one to blame, but many point to him as the first to turn away from big oil. I know, I was one of them. My farther worked for Cheveron (45 years) VP, and my brother has been with Exxon since 1979, I worked for Amoco, 13years then on to Mobil until they moved to Houston. The worst were the years 1981-1998. Poydras became very still. At the time Marc M. was our current thief and he did NOTHING to keep us here. Hey Oyster, those were some difficult times.
I have alot of anger towards our city government. The storm distroyed my parents Lakeview home and killed my dad.
We got third-string government after The Thing from: Nagin, zero leadership to Aunt Bee and up to Fema and Bush.
I'm getting off track here, sorry..this loss of my dad and our city is making me nuts.
But, I will say, if my daddy was here today and he had to comment on Cheveron moving to Covington..he would say..."well kid, at least they not moving to Houston.
hey guys...don't ya know my dad is turning over in his grave because I spelled Chevron - Cheveron.
Sorry daddy :)
Thanks for the comments covingtongirl. I'm sorry you lost your father, and agree that we'd be crazy to reelect the politicians who let us down after Katrina.
The Moon sentiment is also driven by the pathological political views of the right. Mary Landrieu is an independent-minded Democrat (if you think she's a liberal, try searching on somewhere like Democratic Underground for posts about her), and they really dislike that sort the most, because it spoils their fantasy view of the world.
Moon was also part of the Johnston generation of War on Povery democrats as well. So, you combine over racism with a sociopathic view of politics and you get the Moon-o-phobia.
Its more of a symptom of the mental disorder Limbaughism that an independent syndrome.
I am feeling kind of young cause I really dont remember anything about Moon other than that he existed. I like Nagins direct talking politically incorrect style. But he appears to be in over his head. I dont know if I trust Mitch. But hearing that all the fuss is because his dad was a desegregationist makes me feel better about him. I thought maybe he really was corrupt - I guess the Republican spin machine must have been getting to me.
I wrote a really long post the other day about the history of my views and Moon, Dutch, Marc, Ray, Mitch, etc.... but it really boils down to this.
The Landrieu's have been around a long time while things have gotten worse and worse in New Orleans. I haven't seen that they have been part of the solution. Not that they've been a part of the problem. Maybe they tried to quietly work from the inside and got frustrated. From where I stand I don't think that they've done a whole lot to help.
I see Mitch as a guy who talks a great game but there's just not much to him. I really wish that Foreman would have ended up in the top two.
Most of my friends up here near BR say forget about NOLA(Actually they don't say it that nicely). I disagree we may only be cousins to y'all but this is the time when all of South Louisiana needs help.
Regardless of who is elected there is a major job to be done. I certainly don't envy either man.
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